Forum:Animated gif's in the infobox
'Good day everyone!' Straight to the point: I think we should''' not use animated pictures for '''infoboxes (and set a limit to the size of them in general). Our current Image Guidelines are pretty clear that we should use gif's sparingly and only under certain circumstances: *''"Firstly, animations are much larger files then images and larger files take time to load on a page. If there are several animations or a particularly large animation, then lag may occur on the page in some form (be it page loading time or just image loading time)."'' Personally, my computer has no problems loading them. But the point is: this does not apply to everyone. We have to consider that unregistered visitors get the full load of ads on top. I know that some don't care (as long as it doesn't affect them), but try to put yourself in their place for a second. After all this is a wiki from One Piece fans for One Piece fans, and not only for those who can handle the traffic. *''"Having a animation simply of two people talking is an example of animations which don't belong on a page, as a single frame and text can describe this action without any problems."'' This rule is probably violated the most when I browse through our gif section. Here are some examples: Gif's that don't add anything, despite being animated: Jango Fullbody Danza... , JetGatling go.gif , MeraMeraP.gif , Monkey-D.Sleeps.gif , Sanji vs Mr 2 parte ... , Tyrannosaurus Animat... , LuffyStanceGear2nd.gif And then we have gif's that actually show something, but are completely unnecessary to support the text. Keep in mind that gif's are meant to show things a normal image can't: Luffy and Charloss.gif , Slave arrow.gif , Luffy fighting Blugo... , Sai Dai Rin Rokuouga... , Ussop vs Luffy.gif . Don't let yourself be fooled, while they are indeed "nice to look at", they are not necessary (but still come at a cost). In addition we have gif's that are (no offense) of extremely low quality and sometimes even contain subs: Shishi Sonson.GIF (this one even has credits of the creator on it), Luffy fighting Blugo... , Gigantopistol.gif , Gearthirdactivate.gif , Entei.gif , Desert spada.wmv.GIF (probably the worst of all). And finally we have gifs that are really helpful to display something, but in turn are monstrous in size: Horu Horu no Mi.gif (3,195,430 bytes !), Kizaru arrival.gif (4,718,758 bytes!!!!), Haki.gif (5,390,192 bytes....). What I'm trying to say is: Infobox pictures are big by nature (240px to fill the box nicely), however gif's work best when they are smaller in size: Kizarus kick redirec... , One Piece Don Krieg ... , Spring Hopper.gif. My suggestion: We avoid using gif's for infoboxes, but place smaller versions where it fits on the article (if it is necessary). That way we have the best of both worlds. Deciding on a general rule would be helpful to keep the quality consistent, like a set size restriction (other wiki's already enforce such a rule, at least for gifs) Discussion IOU 20:53, July 5, 2011 (UTC) If so many GIFs are useless, low quality and just have no place on this wikia, then they should be completely deleted 21:13, July 5, 2011 (UTC) It seems that YazzyDream resized some of the ones mentioned in this post, I'd however still like to see a general discussion about the usage of them, particularly in the infoboxes. 11:31, July 8, 2011 (UTC) I like them. Getting a quick and better image of what happened is helpfull. 11:34, July 8, 2011 (UTC) : Excatly..but the no. of images on the each page can be compromised for the gifs:) : I have no problem with gifs that actually show something happening (like the Luffy vs. Usopp one), my problem is with the gifs that show something that could easily be shown in a standard picture. i.e. the mera mera one. -- 11:40, July 8, 2011 (UTC) : Gifs like the Mera Mera one and Jango with Fullbody dancing, of course they should be out. But in general, gifs are a good option. 11:43, July 8, 2011 (UTC) Its against image guidlines to put GIFs in infoboxes. SeaTerror 20:11, July 10, 2011 (UTC) Sea Terror is on our side, a miracle, now I think Jinbe should begin the poll 12:31, July 14, 2011 (UTC) GIFs should only be on attack pages like a devil fruit page and not as the infobox. SeaTerror 23:18, July 14, 2011 (UTC) @ST Could you quote the paragraph where it is stated? (gifs in the infobox) 21:47, July 15, 2011 (UTC) The forum died out and this problem still ahsn't been discussed properly, we really have no need for gifs, there are only a few ones, I think that its best to just get rid of them all, not only the ones in infoboxes since they aren't helpful at all, their quality sucks and a normal well shot picture is just as good, we don't need to be fancy and have them just for the show since this is a wikia! 10:45, July 30, 2011 (UTC) Possible voting options I think arguments have been made, a vote is necessary to solve this matter. Suggested voting options: Gif's in General: #Leave everything as it is (no restrictions concerning size, quality and subs) #Add restrictions to the image guidelines, (example: avoiding subs in the gifs, size etc). #Remove gif's altogether Gif's in the infobox (given option 1. or 2. make it) #Allow gif's everywhere. #Gif's shouldn't be used in the infobox, but everywhere else. #Gif's should only be used in the attacks/abilities section. This is what I can filter from the discussion. If you have something to add, please say so. Else I will open the poll on Sunday. (And to be precise, just to prevent possible bitching about the poll later on: This is no official vote, just a brief brainstorming to cover everyones suggestions/opinions) 11:10, July 30, 2011 (UTC) GIFs are only needed on the attack pages. They should also never be used in infoboxes. SeaTerror 18:01, July 30, 2011 (UTC) Thanks, option added. 18:07, July 30, 2011 (UTC) Regarding the "Add size restrictions to the image guidelines, avoid subs in the gif" the first restriction is more important then the second, because for some scenes is hard to find a raw clip, since most of the episode are hard-subbed. Regarding the discussion, I think we should use gif for what he can't be represented by a static picture, so whatever is the results of this forum we should consider the deletion of some pointless gifs, as pointed out by pandawarrior. Another intelligent restriction, would be the number of gifs in a page (or the overall size total, that's better) which will prevent page overload. About the infobox, I don't see anything wrong to use a gif in the profile, especially if you would have put the gif in the page anyway while using a static picture in the infobox (in this case there would be an image in surplus, right?). The only drawback I see in this case, is that if the gif is put in the infobox, then it should have an acceptable quality so it will be probably have a big size, but if that's the case then there is no need to put a restriction of using gif in infoboxes, because the gif size restriction and the quality restriction for profile are sufficient, because these two already implies not using gif for most of cases. Obviously we would have to discuss the restrictions in detail, but there is no point in doing so if the possible result is to get rid of them altogether. I added that to the voting option in question. For gifs in the infobox, well as I said: to properly fill an infobox the pic needs to be 240 pixels. Gif's of that size are huge and take time to load. Some editors have the skills to create lightweight gifs of that size, but the majority of them really don't (some are even obvious avatars from fan forums). Gif's in other parts of an article can be smaller in size, because they nicely adapt to the text - they don't have to fill anything. Also don't forget that in theory, we don't need gifs at all. A well written text can take care of everything, and not every little thing needs to be visualized. You know I'm not a image-nazi and I don't have anything against a good number of them, but the difference in gifs is that they come at a cost. But whatever, if you or anyone else want to add something to the poll, try to formulate what you want to change. Thank you! 18:58, July 30, 2011 (UTC) For now, I don't have anything to add, and to summary what I said above if I vote for "Add restrictions to the image guidelines, (example: avoiding subs in the gifs, size etc)" and "Allow gif's everywhere." that implies that in the 90% of cases a gif isn't allowed to be used in the infobox for the reasons you have said, so I don't really have to vote for the other 2 options if the size and the quality are the only problem. If you vote for "Add restrictions" and "allow gifs everywhere" then you just have to live with the fact that infobox gifs might not fill the infobox nicely, thats all.. 19:23, July 30, 2011 (UTC) Official vote regarding gifs in general & gif placement Here we go. Requirements as always, registered since 3 months / 300+ edits. Place your vote under the option that represents your opinion the best. The vote ends in one week, 09.08.2011 (possible extension to 2 weeks in case of a tie) Vote over Gif's in General: 1. Leave everything as it is (no restrictions concerning size, quality and subs) # # 2. Add restrictions to the image guidelines, (example: avoiding subs in the gifs, size, quality, purpose etc). # 11:17, August 2, 2011 (UTC) # 11:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC) # (we have still to decide what restriction, haven't we?) # 12:34, August 3, 2011 (UTC) #MasterDeva 15:48, August 3, 2011 (UTC) #SeaTerror 01:18, August 6, 2011 (UTC) (only quality. Nothing wrong with size or subs. # 19:17, August 6, 2011 (UTC) 3. Remove gif's altogether # # Gif's in the infobox (given option 1. or 2. make it) 1. Allow gif's everywhere. # (the fact they're allowed, doesn't mean they can be used every-time) # 2. Gif's shouldn't be used in the infobox, but everywhere else. # 12:34, August 3, 2011 (UTC) #Bastian9 22:41, August 5, 2011 (UTC) 3. Gif's should only be used in the attacks/abilities section. # 11:17, August 2, 2011 (UTC) # 11:39, August 2, 2011 (UTC) #SeaTerror 01:18, August 6, 2011 (UTC) # 19:17, August 6, 2011 (UTC) Post voting discussion @Leviathan Restrictions will be discussed in detail in case people vote for it. Size of gifs, allowing subs, mb restriction etc. This option basically says "yes, we need set guidelines concerning gifs" 12:15, August 2, 2011 (UTC) I see nothing wrong with sizes and subs in gifs. Especially subs. SeaTerror 01:18, August 6, 2011 (UTC) Voting results Right, time is up and we have a clear decision: *The community wants restrictions to gif's (in some form, details follow). *Gif's are now only allowed in the attacks/ability section. But please, don't execute anything of the above before this topic is completely solved, thanks! Restrictions to gif's discussion Right, the majority wants some sort of restrictions to animated gif's, so lets discuss possible options. *Limit concerning px size (100 px, 190 px, 240 px etc.) *Limit concerning byte (1.000.000, 2.000.000, 3.000.000 etc.) *Subtitles *Credits of the creator *What should and should not be displayed (we already decided to only use them in the attack section, which kinda affects that already...but just to make things clear) That's what I can think of for now. Of course each restriction comes with a "leave it - no restrictions" option. We will need a vote here as well, so please formulate your suggestions precise and clear (preferably no wall of text). Thanks! 09:15, August 9, 2011 (UTC)